Forums » Horse Related Chat Only

Rough Draft of Trait Prices

    • 43 posts
    June 13, 2011 1:51 AM PDT
    Caine Warblood said:
    I've ALWAYS found that if you're patient you'll find a buyer who's willing to pay you a fair price for your hard work because it's what they've been looking for, I've bred for a long time and my horses have strong lineage and some quite high traits, I enjoy experimenting and making horses where say the eye's compliment the coat etc... having someone come along and say "well the price guide says that this is worth blah blah" is quite offensive really as the time, money and effort put into your horses is of value to you and to your customers.

     


    Amen! This is true for me, too.
    Since September of last year I've probably changed my breeding program six or so times, each time only because I'd managed to achieve my ideal horse and wanted to try breeding a new kind. When setting the prices of my not-so-highly-traited horses, I walk around as many markets as I have the time to and try to compare. If I find that the horses I'm selling are fairly common, I price them competitively by taking the average price based on observation and setting mine 30-50L lower. On average, therefore, I will sell a non-starter coat with 4-5 traits for 400-750L (up to 1,200L if the horse is male). I consider this beneath the value of the horse, but these are the sales that allow me to maintain my tier, food/salt and market stall costs monthly. If I do not deem a horse worth more than 300L, I haven it.


    Usually, though, if the horses I want to sell don't seem too common, I price them according to my personal opinion of what their value is. I take this from both the average market prices and add in the costs of breeding the horse. I usually set this when the horse is born, and don't usually lower the prices of these better-traited horses even as they get older or as the breeding trend changes. Like Caine, I've found that in time, somebody will come along and purchase the horse, usually unexpectedly. These are horses priced in the thousands and despite that, they do sell! These are the sales that allow me to save up for new starter packs, LEs, stud services or changing my breeding program completely.

     

    As I always say, since starting the breeding hobby in September '10, I have never had to buy Linden. At the end of the day, I believe earning from the breeding hobby truly takes patience and the diligence to study what your horses are valued by the market.


    This post was edited by Charlie Callow at June 13, 2011 1:54 AM PDT
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 4:59 AM PDT
    Caine Warblood said:
    so setting the market lower than the purchase cost is helping the market?.... such as the very first item on the list which is starter coats at $L50?... you do realise that that is less than purchase cost for a starter pack don't you?..... question.... have you factored in tier? food? salt? other consumables? auction fee's? even a persons personal time? the rarity of certain coats and eyes? the strength of the generations of coats and eyes?.... travelling around auctions looking at the prices people are being forced to sell at whilst the market has slumped has to be the silliest thing i've ever seen... you're not allowing the market to flux at all with a set price list, attempting to regulate the market like this is doing the exact opposite.... you're forcing new breeders to take on more stock they don't need just to be able to feed and care for the ones they already have by selling at ridiculously low prices which is flooding the market.

     

     

    For 1 thing its not a set price 

    For 2 i dont expect people to use this if they dont want to

    For three like i said before when a new horse comes out they set the price for like 50k and up. this is nuts. but i understand, people gotta do what they gotta do. but once there hundreds of them on the sim do they stay at 50k.... no they drop way down to nearly nothing. With that said would you rather have a horse sell for 50k them you get another one and it only sells for a few thousand, or would you like to see that horse have a steady sell rate of about 10-20k or so everytime. 

    For 3 yes i have factored in all the extras needed for healthy happy avis and there sims. who whats to spend 50k on one horse then have no money for food,salt,medicine and other supplies needed for the horses and not have the money to pay tier and anything else that is needed. with a set price you can afford to live right and still keep your horses happy. 

    For 4 With starters i mean birthed starters not bought starters per Amaretto store. this list has nothing to do with any items bought from Amaretto.

    And Lastly, the market will continue to fluxuate constantly. theres nothing we can do about that. but with this guide, if people choose to use it, it will help them price there stock. like i said before not everyone will use this, i praise them either way. with or with out this guide. it is just a helping hand is all.


    Thank you for your feedback. it is enlightening and Crisp. And remember this is just a rough draft not set in stone. nothing is ever set in stone.


    P.s the community(you know who you are) set the price very high just to have is come crashing down to near nothing. then we all expect them to rise back up to where they were, its possible not likely but possible. just when will it happen. when we are broke? when we are rich? in the middle? after several horses got sick because we spent 10k on a horse that should sell for 5-6k and could not buy food or a healing kit to heal the poor horse? you decide 



    This post was edited by luckystrike maven at June 13, 2011 5:05 AM PDT
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 5:20 AM PDT
    Charlie Callow said:
    Caine Warblood said:
    I've ALWAYS found that if you're patient you'll find a buyer who's willing to pay you a fair price for your hard work because it's what they've been looking for, I've bred for a long time and my horses have strong lineage and some quite high traits, I enjoy experimenting and making horses where say the eye's compliment the coat etc... having someone come along and say "well the price guide says that this is worth blah blah" is quite offensive really as the time, money and effort put into your horses is of value to you and to your customers.

     

    Amen! This is true for me, too. Since September of last year I've probably changed my breeding program six or so times, each time only because I'd managed to achieve my ideal horse and wanted to try breeding a new kind. When setting the prices of my not-so-highly-traited horses, I walk around as many markets as I have the time to and try to compare. If I find that the horses I'm selling are fairly common, I price them competitively by taking the average price based on observation and setting mine 30-50L lower. On average, therefore, I will sell a non-starter coat with 4-5 traits for 400-750L (up to 1,200L if the horse is male). I consider this beneath the value of the horse, but these are the sales that allow me to maintain my tier, food/salt and market stall costs monthly. If I do not deem a horse worth more than 300L, I haven it.


    Usually, though, if the horses I want to sell don't seem too common, I price them according to my personal opinion of what their value is. I take this from both the average market prices and add in the costs of breeding the horse. I usually set this when the horse is born, and don't usually lower the prices of these better-traited horses even as they get older or as the breeding trend changes. Like Caine, I've found that in time, somebody will come along and purchase the horse, usually unexpectedly. These are horses priced in the thousands and despite that, they do sell! These are the sales that allow me to save up for new starter packs, LEs, stud services or changing my breeding program completely.

     

    As I always say, since starting the breeding hobby in September '10, I have never had to buy Linden. At the end of the day, I believe earning from the breeding hobby truly takes patience and the diligence to study what your horses are valued by the market.

     

     To Caine, if you love what you do so much your not going to be like "oh i took 4 years on that horse to get it perfect i will sell is for ....10k" no you are going to be so proud why would you even think to sell a horse so high. For me i love what i do. i enjoy it alot. but i am not about to sell a horse i worked on so long to get right for 1000's. i would rather see someone wanting the horse and me sell it at a good price via the list and they soo happy. that were i am most happy. seeing someone else happy. its what i live for. 

     

     

     To Charlie,

            If you have a horse thats not worth more than 300L and to haven it with         people out there looking for such a horse for whatever purpose, why not           just sell it or give it away to someone who really needs it. make someone         else happy. that in turn will make you happy. but that is just me, its the           way i roll.


    This post was edited by luckystrike maven at June 13, 2011 5:23 AM PDT
  • June 13, 2011 8:12 AM PDT

    I don't know why we turned this into a philosophical discussion or a debate. People are trying to act enlightened by criticizing your efforts. I get that there are many different perspectives, but the main perspective I'm seeing is "the glass if half empty" instead of "the glass could one day be full". These prices are not set in stone, and no one is being forced at gunpoint to use them. Sure they aren't perfect. Maybe some of them should be raised a lot higher. That is what feedback is for. If enough people chime in and say raise that one price 10k, then I'm sure collectively, together, we can change the price. If anything, this list is educational, as some people don't know all the available coats and traits, let alone the ballpark figures. I rather have a list that isn't perfect to help me than have no list at all. Think about all the hard work that lucky has put into this. It was hard work creating the initial list, and it's hard work replying to complaints, questions, comments, etc. and to update the list and maintain it. Cut him a little slack, because tearing down something is a whole lot easier than building it, and it's not fair.  Now, let me work a little magic.  Lucky, why don't you write something on top of the list that says something like "this is a collective effort by members of the community to provide general ballpark figures for trait prices.  nothing is set in stone, any price can be lowered/raised in response to feedback, and most importantly no one is being forced at gunpoint to adhere to these prices."  There.  Now maybe that will put a stop to people adding their "two cents".


    This post was edited by Deleted Member at June 13, 2011 8:20 AM PDT
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 10:32 AM PDT
    Scars Steerpike said:

    I don't know why we turned this into a philosophical discussion or a debate. People are trying to act enlightened by criticizing your efforts. I get that there are many different perspectives, but the main perspective I'm seeing is "the glass if half empty" instead of "the glass could one day be full". These prices are not set in stone, and no one is being forced at gunpoint to use them. Sure they aren't perfect. Maybe some of them should be raised a lot higher. That is what feedback is for. If enough people chime in and say raise that one price 10k, then I'm sure collectively, together, we can change the price. If anything, this list is educational, as some people don't know all the available coats and traits, let alone the ballpark figures. I rather have a list that isn't perfect to help me than have no list at all. Think about all the hard work that lucky has put into this. It was hard work creating the initial list, and it's hard work replying to complaints, questions, comments, etc. and to update the list and maintain it. Cut him a little slack, because tearing down something is a whole lot easier than building it, and it's not fair.  Now, let me work a little magic.  Lucky, why don't you write something on top of the list that says something like "this is a collective effort by members of the community to provide general ballpark figures for trait prices.  nothing is set in stone, any price can be lowered/raised in response to feedback, and most importantly no one is being forced at gunpoint to adhere to these prices."  There.  Now maybe that will put a stop to people adding their "two cents".

    Perfect!! thanks bro i shall use that!!

    • 33 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:06 AM PDT

    While I m not going add my "two cents" one way or the other for the Pricing Guide listed above, I do have to say that EVERYONE in the horsing community has a right to express their opinion here without being insulted. Everyone whom posts here is an amaretto horse owner and as such, has that right. I would also like to add (and this is not to burst your bubble)... that I would not be surprised if at least 30-40k avies own horses by now. You would have to get at least half of them here to read the pricing guide to make it even viable..and I just don't see that happening at this point.


    This post was edited by Belle Loll at June 13, 2011 11:07 AM PDT
    • 170 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:40 AM PDT
    I'd have to say no list of recommended values/prices could be kept up with. As it's going every day I am seeing lower and lower prices, people desperate to pay their food costs, tier, etc. With the flood of new breeders in past 3 months sales are hard to get no matter the quality of your horse, it's value is going down. There will be a point when the dust settles and the market stabilizes, but I fear it will get even worse nin the next few weeks before that happens.
    • 170 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:44 AM PDT
    I appreciate the effort to somewhat try set a 'standard' for pricing, but there will always be those who like to undercut market rates for a quick sale. I hope this list at least emlightens a lot of people to try price fairly.. Very instructive :) good work I have to admit
    • 2 posts
    June 13, 2011 4:55 PM PDT
    How much does lazer eyes go for
    • 2 posts
    June 13, 2011 6:18 PM PDT
    One thing I'm going to point out though, is a bundle costs around 200 linden to produce if you only factor in food/salt and prim rental. If things dip under that (yes, even for that brown bay normal normal bundle), well, we're all losing money no matter what we do :(
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 6:19 PM PDT
    Zaclegend Usher said:
    How much does lazer eyes go for

    i have them listed for 1500. but its anyones guess what there really worth

    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 6:22 PM PDT
    Spongo Ronmark said:
    One thing I'm going to point out though, is a bundle costs around 200 linden to produce if you only factor in food/salt and prim rental. If things dip under that (yes, even for that brown bay normal normal bundle), well, we're all losing money no matter what we do :(

    yes we are all losing money someway or another. thats one reason i made this list to help regulate the market so we can atleast afford a decent horse and be able to pay rent, buy food, and what not

    • 4 posts
    June 13, 2011 6:32 PM PDT

    Why is it that every time someone tries to help out the ppl who TRULY have no clue on how much to price a horse the rest of the community gives them shit? Ive seen this happen time and again, but you let a noob in horses mistakenly price a bundle or horse and watch how much shit they get!

     

    If all of the naysayers who cant stand to see a GUIDE published would lend a hand with our world filled with amaretto noobs and talk to them about pricing and such, maybe there would be a better grid wide understanding of prices.

     

    Until then, I will continue to march to the beat of my own drummer...

     

    Leave Maven alone... your Clyde just jumped and got a bay...


    This post was edited by Mississippi Xue at June 13, 2011 6:33 PM PDT
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:36 PM PDT
    Mississippi Xue said:

    Why is it that every time someone tries to help out the ppl who TRULY have no clue on how much to price a horse the rest of the community gives them shit? Ive seen this happen time and again, but you let a noob in horses mistakenly price a bundle or horse and watch how much shit they get!

     

    If all of the naysayers who cant stand to see a GUIDE published would lend a hand with our world filled with amaretto noobs and talk to them about pricing and such, maybe there would be a better grid wide understanding of prices.

     

    Until then, I will continue to march to the beat of my own drummer...

     

    Leave Maven alone... your Clyde just jumped and got a bay...

    Thanks  sweetie i am happy that i have people backing me up on this. it is very hard to find people like you in this world be it rl or sl. your a shining star in my book

    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:36 PM PDT
    Scars Steerpike said:

    Could you include a price for Full Siblings?

     

    Do Full Siblings need to be birthed to have any value?  i.e. - I have only two Full Sibling bundles right now and I want to sell them.  I don't see how them being Full Siblings can affect their value, because most likely they will end up being two females.  What are your thoughts on Full Sibling bundles?

    There already included, look at pure and gens i will add brothers sisters and triples

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by luckystrike maven at June 13, 2011 11:38 PM PDT
    • 130 posts
    June 13, 2011 11:45 PM PDT

    Added Full Sibs

    Added Brothers

    Added Sisters

    Added Triples

    • 4 posts
    June 14, 2011 1:53 AM PDT
    I just want to say that i find this very helpful as a guideline. It gives a better understanding of wich traites are the most desired and rare, and it help to have a starting point when im pricing my bundles. So thank you :-)
    • 130 posts
    June 14, 2011 2:15 AM PDT
    Bluelion Jewell said:
    I just want to say that i find this very helpful as a guideline. It gives a better understanding of wich traites are the most desired and rare, and it help to have a starting point when im pricing my bundles. So thank you :-)

    you are very welcome hun and thank you for your feedback

  • June 14, 2011 2:26 AM PDT
    I don't know either scars... but why would you delete your earlier post which was less passive agressive and more agrumentative then the one you replaced it with?, could it be you're attempting to make yourself look like less of an idiot?... the world is full of unanswered questions I guess.

    I'm all for helping new breeders but when they're being completely misinformed and the market in which I have a vested interest in is being messed with in such a manner that is causing it harm then I've a right to ask why... don't I?... or are we living in a dictatorship under the rule of those whom obviously know nothing?
  • June 14, 2011 2:43 AM PDT
    I don't see any such dictatorship. Making this list accurate requires involvement on a regular basis by more than just a handful of people. Having one person complain that a price is too low, isn't sufficient enough to have it raised back up. I'm certain that once the hostility and negative criticism settles down, that more people will join in the discussion and if enough people agree on a price, I'm sure Lucky will change it accordingly. It just requires patience. Try to take a postive action instead of just rehashing the same stuff out which is "your list sucks", "I don't like your list", "I want you to take your list down." Why not suggest that he write on his post, "This list cannot be vouched for being accurate, as not enough people have been involved in the making of it. It is just a tentative approach in the right direction." Can't you give him just a bit more slack and be tad bit gentler?
    • 130 posts
    June 14, 2011 4:10 AM PDT
    Scars Steerpike said:
    I don't see any such dictatorship. Making this list accurate requires involvement on a regular basis by more than just a handful of people. Having one person complain that a price is too low, isn't sufficient enough to have it raised back up. I'm certain that once the hostility and negative criticism settles down, that more people will join in the discussion and if enough people agree on a price, I'm sure Lucky will change it accordingly. It just requires patience. Try to take a postive action instead of just rehashing the same stuff out which is "your list sucks", "I don't like your list", "I want you to take your list down." Why not suggest that he write on his post, "This list cannot be vouched for being accurate, as not enough people have been involved in the making of it. It is just a tentative approach in the right direction." Can't you give him just a bit more slack and be tad bit gentler?
    thanks again for these great words. i have added them to the list
  • June 14, 2011 4:50 AM PDT

    @ scars... I don't remember saying anything along the lines of "your list sucks" "I don't like your list" "take your list down"... if you cared to read my first comment before you posted the hostile comment you did before deleting it in the hope of making yourself look like less of an agumentative ass you'd see that i said it was commendable that so much time and effort had gone into helping new breeders... my feelings are simply that it's a double edged sword to try and regulate a market in this manner because whilst it maybe helping in one way it's also damaging in another, I was under the impression this topic was open to feedback on whether the list accurately reflects the market value of horses or not... obviously it's only open to feedback as long as you agree with it scars. once again Lucky well done on the time and effort you placed into this list and i do hope it helps new breeders as a base line for their horse/bundle value, my only hope is that it's not as strictly adhered to as it may be for the reasons i posted earlier.


    This post was edited by Deleted Member at June 14, 2011 4:58 AM PDT
  • June 14, 2011 8:57 AM PDT

    Caine Warblood

     

    Such as the very first item on the list which is starter coats at $L50?... you do realise that that is less than purchase cost for a starter pack don't you?..... question.... have you factored in tier? food? salt? other consumables? auction fee's? even a persons personal time? the rarity of certain coats and eyes? the strength of the generations of coats and eyes?.... travelling around auctions looking at the prices people are being forced to sell at whilst the market has slumped has to be the silliest thing i've ever seen... you're not allowing the market to flux at all with a set price list, attempting to regulate the market like this is doing the exact opposite.... you're forcing new breeders to take on more stock they don't need just to be able to feed and care for the ones they already have by selling at ridiculously low prices which is flooding the market.

     

    Hey Lucky, I think that when Caine made that fuss about 50L Starter Coats, that would give us reason to add two categories for Starter Coats. One category will be for old Starters like Palominos, Bays, Appaloosas, etc., that only have the old trait genes. The other category will be for recent Starter horses that have a chance of dropping new traits. Those ones I feel should be priced higher. I'm not sure on what price though, because I havent been going to any market stalls or auctions. But it would only make sense to me if it was close to the initial purchase price. Also, I want to know what people's opinions are on Replacement horses. They have the ability to pass new traits just like Starter horses, but I couldn't get anyone to buy them for 250L each and they were all male. Aren't they essentially the same as Starter horses that you buy that are like 1250L each? I'm at a loss here. But if you can update your list to include all types of Starters, old ones and new ones, that would be a lot of help. Thanks.  Oh, and another thing we should consider.  If you try to sell a new Starter at around the time they were released, the price should be high.  But if you try to sell them after most of the community owns them, then they should be lower.  So maybe you should have different prices for different time periods AFTER the new starter horses were released.


    This post was edited by Deleted Member at June 14, 2011 9:37 AM PDT
  • June 14, 2011 2:58 PM PDT

    I give up on this auction. I thought Elemental eyes would be worth something. At least 1k. But today I saw a 5 Traited Element Eye sell for 150L and I saw a Grey Clydesdale sell for 1k. I had a 4 traited and a 6 traited pair of Element Eye Arabians set for 1500L and didn't get any bids.  Even if Elemental Eyes increase the chances of getting Elemental Horses, everyone already has them.  Doesn't do me any good.  I'm going to change my tactics.


    This post was edited by Deleted Member at June 14, 2011 4:45 PM PDT
    • 98 posts
    June 14, 2011 4:48 PM PDT
    luckystrike maven said:
    Caine Warblood said:
    so setting the market lower than the purchase cost is helping the market?.... such as the very first item on the list which is starter coats at $L50?... you do realise that that is less than purchase cost for a starter pack don't you?..... question.... have you factored in tier? food? salt? other consumables? auction fee's? even a persons personal time? the rarity of certain coats and eyes? the strength of the generations of coats and eyes?.... travelling around auctions looking at the prices people are being forced to sell at whilst the market has slumped has to be the silliest thing i've ever seen... you're not allowing the market to flux at all with a set price list, attempting to regulate the market like this is doing the exact opposite.... you're forcing new breeders to take on more stock they don't need just to be able to feed and care for the ones they already have by selling at ridiculously low prices which is flooding the market.

     

     

    For 1 thing its not a set price 

    For 2 i dont expect people to use this if they dont want to

    For three like i said before when a new horse comes out they set the price for like 50k and up. this is nuts. but i understand, people gotta do what they gotta do. but once there hundreds of them on the sim do they stay at 50k.... no they drop way down to nearly nothing. With that said would you rather have a horse sell for 50k them you get another one and it only sells for a few thousand, or would you like to see that horse have a steady sell rate of about 10-20k or so everytime. 

    For 3 yes i have factored in all the extras needed for healthy happy avis and there sims. who whats to spend 50k on one horse then have no money for food,salt,medicine and other supplies needed for the horses and not have the money to pay tier and anything else that is needed. with a set price you can afford to live right and still keep your horses happy. 

    For 4 With starters i mean birthed starters not bought starters per Amaretto store. this list has nothing to do with any items bought from Amaretto.

    And Lastly, the market will continue to fluxuate constantly. theres nothing we can do about that. but with this guide, if people choose to use it, it will help them price there stock. like i said before not everyone will use this, i praise them either way. with or with out this guide. it is just a helping hand is all.


    Thank you for your feedback. it is enlightening and Crisp. And remember this is just a rough draft not set in stone. nothing is ever set in stone.


    P.s the community(you know who you are) set the price very high just to have is come crashing down to near nothing. then we all expect them to rise back up to where they were, its possible not likely but possible. just when will it happen. when we are broke? when we are rich? in the middle? after several horses got sick because we spent 10k on a horse that should sell for 5-6k and could not buy food or a healing kit to heal the poor horse? you decide 

    ******************************************************************************************

     

     

    The reason why prices drop on these horses is because there are mass quantities of the same traits. According to that list, I should have sold my double long Black Buckskin with coat gloom and cirque eyes for $12350.  Cirque eyes are one of the rarest on the grid, no way would I let it go that cheap.  Should I cash in on the fact that its considered rare?  Of course.  Considering the albino mother I got is fourth generation of siblings that was started seven months ago.  Imagine the time, and expense put into creating those generations. Another reason to price it so high is to keep it rare for as long as possible. If you allow something to be so easily accessible, within weeks it to will be another commodity.  As of today, to my knowledge there are four cirque albinos on the grid, and that above mentioned horse sold for $90K.

     

    I rarely buy horses.  Most of the stock I own is of my own breeding.  When I make a decision to add new blood to my lines, I'm picky as to what I am getting.  I won't even consider buying a horse until I've seen the pedigree.  Remember, when you are buying someone elses blood line, you incorporate their line into yours and if you choose the wrong horse you can really screw things up.  I am willing to spend that extra linden for a good horse.  I have also seen excellent bundles going very cheap, and that's a shame. 

     

    I will price some of my bundles at market value, some may be slightly more and some less.  I am willing to wait for the right buyer.  My higher end stuff are priced accordingly as well.  The bottom line is I don't agree with a price list of any kind for what we do.  The idea you have in your head is to make it "fair" for everyone to make money on what they have, whether it's a profit or not.

     

    Vast differences in pricing is going to set the money breeders apart from the ones that put a little more into it than just picking two horses and throwing them together. It's comical when you think about it, this sort of competition runs exactly the same way in the real world of breeding. :-)


    This post was edited by Dj Barracuda at June 14, 2011 4:55 PM PDT